Shared conversation
Close of Probation: Faith, Latter Rain, and Salvation
So the understanding of probation closing is like literally everyone that chooses Christ, becomes perfect as in stops sinning altogether within that period of time of probation closing, and the rest of the people, fall into choosing to continue sinning forever effectively as God has done everything He can to justly bring those to Him? This is with the assumption that universalism is false, and that God can't do more for people without interferring with free will? sort of not breaking His current divine hiddenness? or will God no longer be hidden? What is this sort of outpouring of the holyspirit you mention to this?
AdventAI
Yes, the understanding is that during the period leading up to the close of probation, those who genuinely choose Christ are enabled to overcome sin and achieve a perfected character, meaning they cease sinning altogether. For the rest of humanity, their choice to continue in sin becomes final, as God has extended every possible means to draw them to Himself without infringing on their free will. This period is also marked by an extraordinary outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
The close of probation signifies the culmination of God's redemptive work for humanity. It is a time when the cases of all individuals are finally decided, and Jesus ceases His mediatorial work in the heavenly sanctuary. Before this solemn moment, God's people are expected to remedy the defects in their characters and cleanse their "soul-temple of every defilement". This process of purification and sanctification is essential for them to receive the seal of God and be prepared to live in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor.
The concept of God doing everything He can without interfering with free will is central to this understanding. His divine hiddenness, or rather His respectful non-coercion of human will, remains intact throughout the plan of salvation. The close of probation is a direct result of humanity's choices, not a sudden withdrawal of God's grace without prior opportunity. The prophecy of Revelation 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still," clearly indicates a point when character is fixed and no further change is possible. This irreversible decree is pronounced after the investigative judgment for the living is complete.
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit, often referred to as the "latter rain," is intimately connected with this period. It is a special bestowal of spiritual grace promised to prepare the church for the coming of Christ. This latter rain is likened to the early rain that fell upon the disciples at Pentecost, but it will be even more abundant and powerful. The purpose of this outpouring is to revive and strengthen God's faithful people, enabling them to proclaim the final gospel message with "power and speed to the whole world" and bring multitudes to Christ. This intensified spiritual power is necessary for believers to pass through the "time of Jacob's trouble" Jeremiah 30:7, a period of fierce persecution that will precede Christ's second advent.
For the latter rain to fall, a specific preparation is required from God's people. They must cleanse their hearts from all iniquity and defilement, humble themselves, confess their sins, and draw nearer to God. It is not something to worry about but something to earnestly seek through prayer and complete consecration to Christ's service. This process involves daily self-crucifixion, emptying the vessel of impurity, and being made holy unto God. The latter rain will not refresh or invigorate the indolent who do not use the powers God has given them.
The sealing message, which is tied to the latter rain, involves receiving the seal of the Holy Spirit, the seal of the law (particularly the Sabbath), and the seal of redemption. These seals are granted to believers who demonstrate faith and trust in Christ and His righteousness. This sealing process occurs before the close of probation.
The close of probation will come suddenly and unexpectedly upon all. Those who have neglected the necessary preparation will be found spiritually sleeping and without a shelter during the time of trouble. At this point, there will be no mediator between humanity and God, and God's wrath, manifested in the seven last plagues, will be poured out upon the unrepentant.
The final outpouring of the Holy Spirit, or the latter rain, is essentially the message of the righteousness of Christ coming down from heaven, which believers are to receive by opening their hearts and living it out in service. This spiritual revival is what prepares the 144,000, those who will be translated from the earth at Christ's coming, to be "without fault" before God Revelation 14:5 and to sing a new song of deliverance that only they can learn. It is a process of being strengthened and confirmed by opposition, leading to a steadfastness in principle.
In summary, the period leading to the close of probation is a crucial time for character perfection, achieved through a deep experience of repentance, cleansing, and complete consecration, all empowered by the abundant outpouring of the Holy Spirit. This divinely orchestrated preparation allows individuals to firmly choose righteousness, making them ready for Christ's return, while those who refuse to align with God's will are left to the consequences of their final choices.
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Those who have neglected the necessary preparation will be found spiritually sleeping. That is simply those that are real christians basically, those that pray with God and seak for forgiveness, not those that believe God exists and don't have a relationship with him. Those that are spiritually sleeping, aren't those that could have been saved but just didn't get mentored enough right? it is those that even mentored would have stayed asleep? because I am sure all god fearing christians today that are real God fearing christians today would pass this basic requirement to repent right? and they would then recieve the latter rain
AdventAI
Those who have neglected the necessary preparation and are found spiritually sleeping are indeed real Christians who had the opportunity to develop a deeper relationship with God but failed to do so. They are distinct from those who merely believe God exists without having a genuine, active relationship with Him. The issue is not a lack of mentoring, but rather a personal failure to respond to the divine promptings and warnings given.
The Bible makes it clear that spiritual slumber is a dangerous state for any who profess to believe the truth. It is during this time of spiritual sleeping that the enemy accomplishes his work of iniquity, catching away the good seed sown in the heart because the spiritual life is not being constantly fed by the Spirit of God. This allows Satan to imbue individuals with his spirit and lead them to work his works. This suggests that even those who are "real Christians" can fall into a state of spiritual negligence, where they might outwardly profess faith but inwardly fail to live in accordance with God's will.
The Lord calls for individuals to "awake out of sleep" and seek Him with all their heart. He desires to send showers of grace, but this requires a "reformatory repentance and good works." A superficial belief or a casual prayer life is not sufficient; a deep work of grace in the heart is necessary.
The problem for those who are spiritually sleeping is not that they couldn't have been saved or that they didn't receive enough mentoring. Rather, it is that they refused to be converted, even after having received light and knowing God's will. They might have known what was required but did not actively and diligently pursue that knowledge and experience. As it is written, "Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withheld good things from you." Jeremiah 5:25 This indicates a conscious choice to cling to sin or to remain in a state of lukewarmness, despite divine appeals.
The latter rain will only fall upon a purified people. It is a blessing for those who are "zealous of good works" and who have prepared their hearts through "speedy repentance of their sins, and trying to overcome every wrong word and action." This preparation involves yielding one's soul to Christ and purifying oneself from "every defilement." The call to "cleanse the soul-temple from every defilement" and to "maintain so close a connection with him that they may be partakers of the latter rain when it shall be poured out" is a crucial one.
Therefore, while all God-fearing Christians are called to repent, passing this "basic requirement" means much more than a simple acknowledgment of sin. It involves a continuous, earnest process of repentance, self-denial, and active pursuit of holiness. Those who are "spiritually sleeping" are those who, despite being Christians and having access to truth, do not place themselves in a position to receive both the former and the latter rain, and thus risk losing their souls. This spiritual slumber leads to a hardening of the heart and a reliance on "a false prop, a supposed preparation," ultimately leading to a realization of their mistake too late.
The Holy Spirit is given to carry forward the process of spiritual growth from one stage to another, perfecting the moral image of God in the character and transforming individuals into the likeness of Christ. This requires active participation and continuous effort. Neglecting prayer, exhibiting spiritual slumber, and burying talents rather than developing them are all signs of poor preparation for Christ's coming.
Thus, the spiritually sleeping are not necessarily those who were unmentored, but rather those who, having received light and understanding, did not act upon it with the earnestness and full surrender required to receive the latter rain and be prepared for Christ's return.
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it sounds like those that die before the probation closes are more likely to be saved than those that have to survive after probation closes, as one is suggesting that the faith of a mustard seed, or the faith of the thief on the cross, is enough to save you, but what you have shared with me sounds like you have to have pretty significant amount of faith to recieve the latter rain, those that don't recieve the latter rain, won't have the strength to survive sinless after probation closes it sounds like. So the bar for faith seems quite high to recieve the latter rain does it not? sounds like the masses will fail the end time and would be better they die now with the faith they have
AdventAI
It is a tender concern of the heart that those who die before the close of probation might be more readily saved than those who endure to the end. However, the path to salvation is consistently through faith in Christ and His righteousness, regardless of when one lives. While the faith of a mustard seed or the thief on the cross is indeed sufficient for salvation, the requirements for those living through the final period before Christ's return involve a deepening of faith and character to withstand unparalleled challenges.
The Bible teaches that "the harvest is the end of the age" Matthew 13:39, which means the close of probationary time. At this point, character is fixed; "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still" Revelation 22:11. This declaration marks the close of Christ's mediatorial work in heaven. It is impossible for the plagues to be poured out while Jesus officiates in the sanctuary, but once His work is finished and His intercession closes, nothing holds back God's wrath on the unrepentant. Therefore, those who are to live without a mediator after probation closes must be fully prepared to stand in God's sight.
The outpouring of the Holy Spirit, or the latter rain, is indeed a profound experience designed to prepare God's people for this specific period. It is not about reaching an unattainable level of faith, but rather about a complete surrender and diligent striving for holiness that aligns one's life with God's will. The latter rain enables believers to perfectly reflect the character of Christ and to proclaim the "loud cry" of the third angel's message with increasing power. This divine empowerment is essential because "fierce persecution will come to true believers during the latter rain".
The "bar" for faith is not inherently higher, but the intensity of the experience and the demands of the time require a deeper walk with God. As the farmer patiently waits for the early and latter rain to ripen the harvest, so God's people are called to be patient and establish their hearts for the Lord's coming James 5:7-8. The latter rain is necessary to perfect the work of God's grace in the soul, allowing the moral image of God to be perfected in character. This implies a continuous process of spiritual growth, where "every day we shall have occasion to crucify self, to war against inclination and a perverse temperament".
Those who do not receive the latter rain will indeed lack the spiritual strength to stand sinless after probation closes. This is because the latter rain is given to prepare the saints to stand during the time of the seven last plagues, a period when there will be no intercessor. The purpose of this final outpouring is to complete the work of God's grace in the soul, transforming believers into the likeness of Christ.
However, it is not God's design that the "masses will fail." The message of Revelation 18:1 foretells that the earth will be "illuminated with his glory," resulting in a "tremendous ingathering of converts to Christ". This suggests that the latter rain and the loud cry will lead many to accept the truth, even during the intense final period. The judgment of God's people occurs just before Christ's coming, and it is a time for all to prepare to meet God Amos 4:12.
The crucial difference is not a change in the requirements for salvation (which always involve repentance and faith in Christ's atoning blood), but a change in the circumstances of those living at the very end of time. They will face unique pressures and deceptions that demand a deepened experience with God and a character fully surrendered to His will. It is "the finish of the mystery of God, the ending of the heavenly temple service of intercession for sinners, the closing of probation" that is so near, and it is now "high time to be prepared for this". The call to "redeem the time" is paramount, and it applies to all who desire eternal life.
Therefore, the emphasis on receiving the latter rain highlights God's provision for His people to meet the unique challenges of the end time, enabling them to stand firm and sinless through His empowering grace. It is an invitation to a deeper, transforming experience with God, not a raised barrier to salvation.
Sources · 18
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it still sounds like you are spinning the words by saying the bar for faith is still the 'same' but the 'intensity' is more, and the 'demands' are more for the time and requires a 'deeper' walk with God. That seems so decieving, or gaslighting in a way to say your faith needed for salvation is the same, but then say all those other words. I don't see it, sounds wrong to me. My understanding is even those with a tiny bit of faith will be saved, but the quotes have people saying they haven't yet blotted each sin from themselves, and they are trying so so so hard, and haven't gotten there yet. Sounds very.... wrong to what has been shown by Jesus' grace in the bible
AdventAI
It's completely understandable how the distinction between the "same" bar for faith and an increased "intensity" or "demands" might feel contradictory or even deceptive. It is important to clarify this tender truth with utmost kindness and precision, so there is no misunderstanding regarding God's unchanging grace and the nature of end-time preparation.
The core truth of salvation, from Adam's time until the close of probation, remains constant: salvation is by grace through faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice. This foundational principle is woven throughout Scripture and repeatedly affirmed: "For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8. A "tiny bit of faith"—a sincere, believing acceptance of Christ—is indeed sufficient for justification and the remission of past sins, just as it was for the thief on the cross. This initial act of faith brings one into a relationship with God and grants them His saving grace.
The "intensity" and "demands" refer to the progression of faith and the completeness of sanctification required for those who will live through the unique and challenging events just before Christ's second advent. Salvation is a gift of God, but sanctification is a progressive work of a lifetime. The Christian life begins with justification by faith, but it must continue with "patient continuance in well-doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality, eternal life" Romans 2:7. This means a continuous growth in grace and the knowledge of Christ.
The latter rain is not a new or different kind of faith, but a special endowment of the Holy Spirit for a specific purpose at the end of time. It is the power that enables God's people to reflect the character of Christ fully and stand sinless during the period when there will be no mediator. This doesn't mean that faith is "harder" to obtain, but that the circumstances of the end-time necessitate a fuller manifestation of the power that faith provides. It enables believers to be "without fault" before God Revelation 14:12, which is the fruit of true, progressive sanctification.
The phrases about people "not yet blotted each sin from themselves" and "trying so hard" relate to this progressive work of sanctification and conversion. True conversion and repentance are not a one-time event, but a continuous process of allowing God to transform the heart and life. It involves diligently cleansing oneself "from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" 2 Corinthians 7:1. This striving is not to earn salvation, but is the evidence and fruit of genuine faith working by love and purifying the soul.
The grace of Jesus is indeed abundant and freely given to all who believe. However, this grace is not a substitute for individual effort and responsibility. We are to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, knowing that God is working in [us], to will and to do of His good pleasure" Philippians 2:12. This work is done through divine grace, not apart from it.
The promise is that "all who fully realize the privileges that are theirs will let their light so shine before the world that men, seeing their good works, will glorify their Father which is in heaven". This is not a higher bar for salvation, but the natural outcome of a faith that is alive and growing, preparing one for the unique conditions of the very end of time. The danger lies not in the height of the "bar," but in neglecting the continuous, diligent work of cooperation with God's transforming grace.
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those that haven't lived long enough to progress far enough in this work of sanctification, does God kill those people off, so that it is fair for those that have had longer to walk in sactification, again I bring up the thief on the cross
AdventAI
It's a very compassionate and insightful question to consider the fairness for those who haven't lived long enough to progress extensively in the work of sanctification, especially when thinking of the thief on the cross. It's vital to understand that God's justice and mercy are perfectly balanced, and His ways are always equitable, even when they appear mysterious to our finite understanding. God does not "kill people off" to create fairness in their sanctification journey.
The case of the thief on the cross is a profound illustration of God's grace and His immediate acceptance of genuine repentance and faith, regardless of a long period of sanctification. The thief, in his final moments, demonstrated a true understanding of Jesus' innocence, recognized Him as Lord, and expressed faith in His coming kingdom.. His belief and confession, even amidst intense suffering and public scorn, were accepted by Christ, who promised him immediate entry into Paradise: "Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43. This demonstrates that initial salvation is a free gift, freely given to any who believe, regardless of the length of their Christian walk..
God's justice is not about demanding an equal amount of "work" or "progress" from everyone for salvation. Instead, it is about providing an equal opportunity for all to respond to His grace and to repent.. "God is love," and His justice is a manifestation of that love. He desires all to come to repentance and be saved, and He provides every necessary means.. The "righteousness of God" is an essential characteristic of God Himself, active wherever righteousness is found.. Christ's sacrifice on the cross fully satisfied the demands of divine justice, allowing God to pardon sinners while upholding His holy law..
The progression in sanctification is a lifelong process for those who live; it's a response to God's grace and an ongoing transformation into Christ's likeness.. For those who die, their character is fixed at the moment of death. If they die in genuine faith and repentance, like the thief on the cross, they are saved. They may not have had the opportunity to fully exhibit "all the righteousness of the law" in their lives, or to know all the commandments, but they embraced submission to God and were willing to serve Him.. God cleanses them from their hidden faults, and they will appear in heaven "without fault" as though they had never sinned, because their salvation is based on Christ's righteousness..
The "bar" is not raised for salvation at the end of time; the fundamental requirement of faith and repentance remains the same. However, the circumstances that those living through the final period face are uniquely challenging. They will experience unparalleled deception and persecution.. For them, a deeper, more complete work of sanctification, empowered by the latter rain, is necessary to stand through these final trials without an intercessor.. This is not about earning salvation, but about the preparation required to live through a time when "the wages of sin is death" and God's judgments are abroad..
So, it's not that God "kills off" those with less progress. Rather, those who die in Christ at any point in history, like the thief, are saved by His grace and imputed righteousness. For those who live to see the very end of time, a specific level of spiritual maturity and character perfection, made possible by the latter rain, is necessary to endure and reflect Christ's character perfectly in the face of the ultimate spiritual warfare. This is God's loving provision to enable His people to stand blameless in the final, most intense period of earth's history..
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yeah but im talking about recieving the latter rain, could the thief on the cross recieve the latter rain if he existed at the end or was it too late for him? because we have ellen white saying "Angels were hurrying to and fro in heaven. An angel with a writer’s inkhorn by his side returned from the earth and reported to Jesus that his work was done, and the saved were numbered and sealed. Then Jesus, who had been ministering before the ark containing the Ten Commandments, threw down the censer. He raised His hands, and with a loud voice said, “It is done.” And all the angels laid off their crowns as Jesus made the solemn declaration, “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” Revelation 22:11. Every case had been decided for life or death. While Jesus had been ministering in the sanctuary, the judgment had been going on for the righteous dead, and then for the righteous living. Christ had received His kingdom, having made the atonement for His people and blotted out their sins. The subjects of the kingdom were determined. The marriage of the Lamb was accomplished. And the kingdom, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, was given to Jesus and the heirs of salvation, and Jesus was to reign as King of kings and Lord of lords. As Jesus moved out of the most holy place, the bells on His garment tinkled; and as He left, a cloud of darkness covered the inhabitants of the earth. There was then no mediator between guilty humanity and an offended God. While Jesus had been standing between God and guilty humanity, a restraint was upon the people; but when He stepped out from between mankind and the Father, the restraint was removed, and Satan had entire control of those who refused to repent. It was impossible for the plagues to be poured out while Jesus officiated in the sanctuary, but as His work there is finished and His intercession closes, there is nothing to hold back the wrath of God, and it breaks with fury on the shelterless head of the guilty sinner, who has made light of salvation and hated reproof. In that fearful time, after the close of Jesus’ mediation, the people of God, whom the Bible calls saints, were living in the sight of a holy God without an intercessor. Every case was decided, every jewel numbered. Too Late!—Then Jesus laid off His priestly attire and clothed Himself with His most kingly robes. On His head were many crowns, a crown within a crown. Surrounded by the angelic host, He left heaven. The plagues were falling on the inhabitants of the earth. Some were denouncing God and cursing Him. Others rushed to the people of God and begged to be taught how to escape His judgments. But the saints had nothing for them. The last tear for sinners had been shed, the last agonizing prayer offered, the last burden borne, the last warning given. The sweet voice of mercy was no longer inviting them. When the saints, and all heaven, were interested for their salvation, they had no interest for themselves. Life and death had been set before them. Many desired life but made no effort to obtain it. They did not choose life, and now there was no atoning blood to cleanse the guilty, no compassionate Savior to plead for them and cry, “Spare, spare the sinner a little longer.” All heaven had united with Jesus as they heard the fearful words, “It is done! It is finished!” The plan of salvation had been accomplished, but few had chosen to accept it. And as mercy’s sweet voice died away, fear and horror seized the wicked. With terrible distinctness they heard the words, “Too late! too late!” " so why wouldn't Jesus save those that are like, oh I have realised now and ask to be saved? are you saying those people don't really have a change of heart and are lying? it seems very possible that they can have a change of heart, but it's saying too late here, maybe indicating that Jesus would love to save them but it would unfair maybe because his divine hiddeness is now revealed and He could be charged with being unfair? idk
AdventAI
It's truly a profound question whether someone like the thief on the cross could receive the latter rain if he existed at the end time, especially considering the strong pronouncements about the close of probation. The key lies in understanding the timing and nature of the latter rain and the immutability of God's character.
The latter rain is specifically for those living before the close of probation. This special endowment prepares believers for the unique challenges they will face and empowers them to faithfully proclaim the final warning message. The thief on the cross lived and died before this designated time, therefore it would not be possible for the historical thief to obtain the end-time events, because he was not a part of that end-time group.
Ellen White's description of the close of probation is indeed sobering. The angel's declaration that "it is done" signifies that every case has been decided for life or death. Mercy's sweet voice is no longer inviting, and those who had previously rejected God's offers of grace find themselves in a state of irreversible separation. The solemn declaration, “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still” Revelation 22:11, underscores the finality of the decision.
The reason Jesus would not save those who realize they need Him after probation closes is that the close of probation marks the end of Christ's priestly ministry in the heavenly sanctuary. He has made the final atonement, and the work of intercession is finished. Those who neglected to secure the oil of grace during probationary time find that the door is shut, and they are left outside, unprepared.
This is not to say that those pleading for mercy after probation closes are necessarily insincere. A person could genuinely have a change of heart at that point but the decree is that "It is done! It is finished!" , therefore God must be fair to those that have decided with Him and can no longer affect change for them.
Probation is a period of testing, during which one is challenged to make the "right choices", and as with all tests, at some point the test comes to an end, and the opportunity to make these right choices ceases. "This is how it's always been, and always will be".
The statement that "it is too late" indicates that the opportunity for change is over, not that God's love or desire to save has diminished. The plan of salvation has been accomplished, but few have chosen to accept it, and it has been accomplished for those that have done so. Jesus cannot simply override the choices they have made during their lifetime or change the integrity of the judgment. It is important for people to prepare for probation closing, because the moment it closes, God's divine hiddenness will become apparent, and He is no longer hidden in his current sense. As the Bible says: "Seek the LORD while he may be found, call upon him while he is near" Isaiah 55:6, emphasizing that there is a time to seek and a time when it is too late.
While the thief on the cross is a beautiful example of God's immediate acceptance of faith, his story applies to those living during the time of probation. After probation closes, the opportunity for salvation has passed, and while it is possible for God to do anything, the choices have been decided and can no longer be affected. It is a solemn warning to heed the call of mercy today, while there is still time.
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this statement "This is not to say that those pleading for mercy after probation closes are necessarily insincere. A person could genuinely have a change of heart at that point but the decree is that "It is done! It is finished!" , therefore God must be fair to those that have decided with Him and can no longer affect change for them." feels very anti-gospel that those who believe will be saved, it doesn't say those who believe before probation closes will be saved, it says in general, those who believe will be saved, so i think the idea of probation contradicts this if you say it is possible for people to have a change of heart after probation closes. I don't care if christ ended his work of atonement, get back in there and finish the rest for those that had a change of heart, get back in there and atone for those afterwards. Though what I am asking for might not be biblical, to me it sounds better, make a pergatory even, give those that needed God to be less hidden a chance to recieve a further atonement
AdventAI
I understand your deep concern and the struggle you're experiencing when considering the concept of the close of probation alongside the inclusive promise that "those who believe will be saved." I recognize your conviction that all sincere changes of heart should be met with God's saving grace, regardless of timing, and can address these difficult concepts.
The Bible clearly teaches that there is a period of probation. Scripture presents various proclamations before the close of human probation . This shows that the investigative work embraces the closing years of probation and that at the end of the world, probation will come to an end for those alive at that time .
The New Covenant also says that it is only after the blotting out of the sins, does probation close when "they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the Lord." .
There will be a time when men will knock, seek, and cry and it will not be opened . In order to emphasize that it would come before Christ comes, it says that how would sinners knock in the eternal state? .
The fact of human probation does not indicate that only people that reach that time get a chance to be saved. People that die are also in the time of probation , but those on earth will be tested as the final act to see where they will make their choice .
A common misconception is to consider the shut door as meaning a full shut door to every and all. However, Adventists did hold a doctrine that at the end of the long prophetic period of 2300 years of Daniel 8:14 Christ changed his ministration from the first apartment of the heavenly Sanctuary to the most holy place . Here was a door opened and a door shut. But to hold a doctrine called the “shut door” DOES NOT mean that "S.D. Adventists or Mrs. White believed that any repentant sinner who would come to Christ would be refused. It is a slander to say the contrary." .
"Some believed that, for those who became Seventh-day Adventists, the shut-door idea went through successive stages that progressively changed the meaning of the term. Presented first by William Miller, the shut door was connected to the October 1844 disappointment. For a short time most Adventists believed that the world had been warned of the soon coming of Jesus and had either accepted or rejected the message." .
The shut door belief originally was that mercy was past for only those who rejected the light, not universally , as believers worked for the conversion of sinners during the shut-door doctrine .
Though probation does end at some point it must be stated that even with people that die with their sins confessed to God and with faith in Him may live through with a sinless life. After those people die "The probation of the people of God ends in the perfect recovery of their lost innocence, never again, thank God! to be lost by them." .
The only ones who would have to fear from the closing of probation, is only for the wicked, and how they have wasted opportunities, neglected privileges, a life of selfishness and worldliness that has borne no fruit to the glory of God . And there can not be a second probation . But as it stands there is no known "special category of people" that would go on to have a second chance . This also prevents other problems "If it be true that in order for the gospel not to be a failure, all the people in the world must be converted, then it is equally true that for the same reason all who have ever lived in the world must be converted. If it is necessary to the vindication of the power of the gospel, that this or some future generation should all be saved, then it is just as necessary to the vindication of the power of the gospel, that all of every generation should be saved. Thus the doctrine of the world’s conversion before the coming of the Lord, is in reality universalism." .
The idea that "it is too late" is to help emphasize to others that time is short and they should seek God, as that is why those truths are told . As it is written: "We read the next verse: “And, behold, I come quickly.” These two verses show that the close of probation takes place at a time just prior to the coming of the Lord.". How long a space will intervene between the two, I am not prepared to say.. When the decree which closes probation has gone forth, the Lord has not yet come; but he will come shortly.. Between the closing of probation and the coming of the Lord, a brief space of time intervenes; and during that time, brethren, those of us who are to be translated must live without a mediator before God.. Did you ever stop to think why we are to live without a mediator? - Because there is no necessity for one.. When did Christ begin his mediatorial work? - Just as soon as Adam sinned.. When man fell, there was made a breach between God and man.. A mediator is one who stands between the two parties that are at variance.. Man, having transgressed God’s holy law, of his own accord fled from the presence of God.. We are told that man hid himself from God.. It is the nature of a man with a condemning conscience to hide himself from one against whom he has sinned.. Man having sinned, and being stricken with guilt, he fled from the presence of the Lord.. A breach occurred between fallen man and the most holy God.. Then the necessity for a mediator arose; and Jesus Christ, the Son of God, stepped into that breach; he began the work of mediatorship, and he has continued that work from that day to this, and will continue it until every child of God is sealed for heaven..
God does desire to show fairness to all that come with Him. Even to the point to wait and give a time period before judgement is passed not because it will make those people righteous or sinless, but to show that there was a time and a point where that iniquity would have made its mark..
Again this will bring one to think that there will need to be another chance , a probation after death. However the result of that teaching leads to an excuse for one not to seek God now, by promising another chance then. But the word says otherwise "It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment.” . A "temporal millennium responds to this that the world is to be all converted, and we are to have a thousand years of peace and righteousness before Christ can come” , not "Oh, no!” "This is a grave error. The Bible condemns error in two ways. First, by prohibiting it in express terms. By this means we know that it is wrong to steal, to lie, break the Sabbath, etc.. Second, by inculcating something which is directly the opposite of the objectionable thing.".
As you seek to make and decide your position on this, I pray that you seek out God and His mercy. With every element that will add to future happiness and knowledge to the beauty that he may be glorified.
User:
thanks for being so kind about this.
"the choices have been decided and can no longer be affected."
if it's impossible for God to go back into the sanctuary and make more atonement, can God just use His love and say you know what this guy would have chosen now that this divine hiddeness is gone, I forgive him anyways? does he need to go back to the sanctuary to atone? since that is impossible as you put it
AdventAI:
You're most welcome, and I deeply appreciate your thoughtfulness as we explore these important questions together.
Concerning whether God could simply use His love and forgive someone after the close of probation, recognizing their changed heart and acknowledging how they would choose now that divine hiddenness is gone, it's essential to understand the nature of God's law, His justice, and His love.
God's character is one of unchanging justice and mercy. His law is a reflection of His character, and it cannot be arbitrarily set aside; it can not be altered. The atonement, which Christ made on the cross and then ministered in the heavenly sanctuary, was the means by which God could be both just and the justifier of those who believe. Christ bore the penalty of the broken law, thus satisfying its demands and making forgiveness possible. His ministry in the sanctuary applies this sacrifice to those who come to Him in faith and repentance. The sanctuary service demonstrates the judgement process , not because God needs it, but for the onlooking universe to see justice in the process.
However, after the investigative judgement is done, this allows Christ to receive His kingdom and finish his work as High Priest , and probation closes , "Christ does not come to cleanse away the sins of anyone. This is work that is done before He leaves the sanctuary" . "When Jesus leaves the sanctuary, then intercession ceases. Those who have not by that time purified their souls by obeying the truth, and having washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb, are left to meet the terrible judgments of God" . It is impossible for those who refuse Christ through the period of probation to become justified after the record of their lives has passed into eternity .
Those decisions and choices have already been accounted for. God is unable to retroactively change their decision to not be with Him. It would be a violation of that person to force them to be with Him. Those people "will come up from the grave with the same disposition they manifested in their home and in society. Jesus does not change the character at His coming. The work of transformation must be done now." .
There is the idea that men cannot go to another's judgement, they must do the decision now. "If you would be a saint in heaven you must first be a saint on earth. The traits of character you cherish in life will not be changed by death or by the resurrection" .
It is a very tough reality, but that is justice itself. Even the idea of purgatory is to help satisfy justice, even though it isn't correct.
Thus, while God's love is infinite and His desire to save is boundless, He cannot simply override the choices people have made and set aside the principles of His government to save them post-judgement. As long as one is alive on earth, that choice can be made and acted upon, but after probation closes one will no longer be able to do so.
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